Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Little h
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Poseidon MRA Mk 1

Unread post by Little h »

My thanks to Hon Mod Jim for providing this forum.

Now it is in existence, I hope will gain momentum with posts about the hitherto close working relationship between Royal Navy ships and RAF Coastal Command/Strike Command(*) aircraft (well their respective crew members actually ;) )

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Lossiemouth prepares to welcome £3bn submarine hunters
STV 5 days ago

Nine P-8A Poseidon aircraft will be based in Moray from next year.

A topping out ceremony for a multi-million pounds facility to house Britain's new generation of submarine hunter aircraft has been carried out at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray.

In total, £3bn is being invested in the P-8A Poseidon fleet.

The first of the nine aircraft will arrive in Moray next year, with service personnel ready to fly them on the first day due to a training programme that's been ongoing for the past five years which has seen personnel embedded with the US Navy.

The new fleet of aircraft mean the UK will have its own maritime patrol for the first time in a decade, since a new generation of Nimrod was scrapped in 2010 following a UK Government Defence Review.

Air Commodore Ian Gale, who is in charge of the P-8 project, said: "It has always been important to protect our shores. We can all see in the news what's happening on our shores, airspace and on our soil and we need to defend ourselves and keep ourselves safe.

"We are going to protect our shores by looking for ships or submarines when they find their way into our areas of interest."

The P-8 model is already used by the US, Indian Navy and Royal Australian Air Force. Its weapons system includes torpedoes for engaging sub-surface targets.

US investment at RAF Lossiemouth is set to total £80m as the superpower plans to fly its own submarine hunter aircraft from the Moray base.

The money includes a contribution to runway refurbishment, hangar space and accommodation.


The MoD says the move supports UK partnership with its "closest ally" and helps both countries be more efficient.

MoD officials said the UK aircraft will form part of the new Defence Arctic Strategy, announced in September by defence secretary Gavin Williamson.

The strategy will focus on protecting the High North and Arctic region, with Russia operating more submarines under the area's melting ice.

The MoD says Russia has ambitions to build over one hundred facilities in the Arctic region and the UK must be ready to 'deal with all threats as they emerge.'

Around 800 Royal Marines will conduct cold weather training in Norway next year, with four Tornado aircraft patrolling Icelandic skies for the first time.

Source STV News North includes a video.
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In addition to the headline; I have bolded/highlighted several passages that I found to be of additional/particular interest.

(*) On 27 November1969, Coastal Command was subsumed into the newly formed Strike Command, which had also absorbed the former Bomber, Fighter and Signals Commands and later also absorbed Air Support Command, the former Transport Command. Transport Command. (this passage is copied from Wiki)
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Submarines are increasingly lurking in seas around the world, and the US Navy's high-tech Poseidon is there to hunt them
Christopher Woody May 14, 2018, 10:40 PM


The US Navy announced this month that it was restarting the 2nd Fleet to oversee the western Atlantic Ocean, including the North Atlantic and the US East Coast.

The decision comes after several years of tensions between NATO members and Russia — and several warnings from Western officials about growing Russian naval activity, including more sophisticated and more active submarines.

NATO has responded in kind, with a special focus on antisubmarine warfare — a capability that has waned among Western navies since the end of the Cold War.

For NATO members and other countries, augmenting antisubmarine abilities means not only adding ships but also advanced maritime-patrol aircraft to scour the sea. A number of aircraft on the market fill this role, but the US-made P-8A Poseidon is among the most sophisticated.

"What it can do from the air, and tracking submarines, is almost like Steven Spielberg," Michael Fabey, author of the 2017 book "Crashback," about China-US tensions in the Pacific, told Business Insider earlier this year.

"I went up on a training flight," he said, "and basically ... they could read the insignia on a sailor's hat from thousands of feet above."

"It's not the aircraft itself of course," he added, but "all the goodies they put in there."

'The best ASW ... platform in the fleet'

In 2004, the US Navy picked the P-8A Poseidon to succeed the P-3 Orion, which had been in operation since the 1960s. The first Poseidon entered service in 2013, and more than 60 are in service now.

The jet-powered P-8A is based on Boeing's 737 airliner, but it is specialized to withstand more strain, with aluminum skin that is 50% thicker than a commercial 737. Every surface is equipped for deicing.

A commercial 737 can be built in two weeks, but a P-8A takes roughly two months.

boeing p-8 poseidon .jpg

US Navy crew members on board a P-8A Poseidon assist search-and-rescue operations for Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 in the Indian Ocean, March 16, 2014.US Navy

It has a ceiling of 41,000 feet, and, unlike the P-3, is designed to do most of its work at high altitude, where it has better fuel efficiency and its sensors are more effective. The Poseidon's top speed of 564 mph is also 200 mph faster than the older Orion, allowing it to get to its station faster and reposition more quickly.

Among its sensors is the APY-10 radar, which can detect and identify ships on the surface and even pick up submarine periscopes. It can also provide long-distance imagery of ports or cities and perform surveillance along coasts or on land.

An electro-optical/infrared turret on the bottom of the plane offers a shorter-range search option and can carry up to seven sensors, including an image intensifier, a laser rangefinder, and infrared, which can detect heat from subs or from fires.

The Poseidon's ALQ-240 Electronic Support Measure acts as an electromagnetic sensor and can track radar emitters. Its Advanced Airborne Sensor can do 360-degree scans on land and water. Other electronic surveillance measures allow it to passively monitor a wide area without detection.

The original P-8A design did not include the Magnetic Anomaly Detector that the P-3 carried to detect the metal in sub's hulls. The MAD's exclusion was controversial, but the P-8A can deploy sonar buoys to track subs, and recent upgrades allow it to use new buoys that last longer and have a broader search range.

It also carries an acoustic sensor and a hydrocarbon sensor designed to pick up fuel vapor from subs. The P-8A's cabin can have up to seven operator consoles, and onboard computers compile data for those operators and then distribute it to friendly forces.

The P-8A carries its own armaments, including Harpoon antiship missiles, depth charges, MK-54 torpedoes, and naval mines. It can also deploy defensive countermeasures, including a laser and metallic chaff to confuse incoming missiles.

A dry-bay fire system uses sensors to detect fires on board and extinguish them, a P-8A pilot told The War Zone in early 2017.

"The P-8 is the best ASW localize/track platform in the fleet, one of the best maritime [Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance] assets in the world, with the ability to identify and track hundreds of contacts, and complete the kill chain for both surface and subsurface contacts if necessary," the pilot said.

140408-n-vd564-035.jpg

US Navy aircrew members look out the windows of a P-8A Poseidon while flying over the Indian Ocean in support of efforts to locate Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, April 8, 2014.US Navy/Chief Mass Communication Specialist Keith DeVinney

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In 2016, the UK announced it would buy nine P-8As. In 2017, Norway announced it was buying five.
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India made its first purchase of the P-8I Neptune variant in 2009, buying eight that deployed in 2013. New Delhi bought four additional planes in 2016, and India's navy chief said in January that the service was looking to buy more.

In early 2014, Australia agreed to buy eight P-8As for $3.6 billion. They are expected to arrive by 2021, and Canberra has the option to buy four more.
2559687.jpg

Malaysian Chief of Defense Forces Gen. Zulkifeli Mohd Zin watches crew members demonstrate advanced features of a P-8A Poseidon, April 21, 2016.US Navy/Mass Comm. Specialist 1st Class Jay M. Chu


us-plans-more-asia-pacific-drills-to-counter-china-reclamation-2015-8.jpg

A Navy crewman on a P-8A Poseidon views a computer screen purportedly showing Chinese construction on the reclaimed land of Fiery Cross Reef in the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, May 21, 2015.Thomson Reuters


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In June 2017, defense ministers from France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain, and Turkey agreed to cooperate on "multinational maritime multimission aircraft capabilities." The US Navy has increased its antisubmarine activities in Europe, leading with the P-8A.

The US's 2018 defense budget included $14 million to refurbish hangers at Naval Air Station Keflavik in Iceland, where antisubmarine forces hunted German U-boats during World War II and patrols scoured northern latitudes during the Cold War.

The US Navy decided to leave Keflavik in 2006, but recent modifications would allow P-8As to be stationed there, though the Navy has said it doesn't currently plan to reestablish a permanent presence.
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The source from which the excerpts above were taken is Business Insider UK open this link to read the very informative article in full; and also view more of the excellent images associated with the article.
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Little h wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:09 pm
Nine P-8A Poseidon aircraft will be based in Moray from next year.

A topping out ceremony for a multi-million pounds facility to house Britain's new generation of submarine hunter aircraft has been carried out at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray.

In total, £3bn is being invested in the P-8A Poseidon fleet.

The first of the nine aircraft will arrive in Moray next year, with service personnel ready to fly them on the first day due to a training programme that's been ongoing for the past five years which has seen personnel embedded with the US Navy.
Testing times - RAF personnel in team effort to prepare P-8A Poseidon for UK service.
Date: 09 May 2018
Editor: Dylan Eklund

When the first Royal Air Force P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft arrives at RAF Lossiemouth it will be ready to fly with a UK crew on day one thanks in part to a team of RAF personnel embedded with the US Navy.

Naval Air Station Patuxent River in Maryland is home to Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 1 (VX-1), a U.S. Navy unit which has within its ranks eight RAF personnel supporting the P-8A test programme.

Squadron Leader John Ryder is one of two RAF pilots serving on the squadron. He said:

"We're fully embedded in the P-8A Test and Evaluation process, which drives incremental improvements and updates to the USN's frontline fleet."
_________________________________________________________

"Specifically we're focussed on Operational Test and Evaluation (OT&E), a process mandated by the US Congress. During OT&E we assess the aircraft's effectiveness and suitability for operations but we also assist with Developmental Test & Evaluation, which verifies that technical performance specifications have been met. Therefore, since 2012 VX-1's RAF team have been a core component in making a state of the art aircraft even more capable."

"Consequently, by the time the UK's first aircraft leaves the Boeing production line, it's going to be an extremely versatile and well proven platform."

Squadron Leader John Ryder
_________________________________________________________

Master Aircrewman Tristan Bushell is a Weapons System Operator (Electronic Warfare). He said: "I fly on the P-8A and help test the electronic sensors. We have the rare opportunity to get involved in the entire process, so we write the test, execute it and then analyse the results. It's been a really upbeat experience for us."

The Squadron is also responsible for developing tactics, an experience the RAF personnel will bring back to the UK. Sqn Ldr Ryder: "I flew numerous anti-submarine warfare serials on P-8A from Scotland during Exercise Joint Warrior in 2012 and the aircraft did the business. From that point onward, P-8A has only got better."

"More importantly we're going to have current, proficient and experienced RAF personnel ready to operate a UK flagged P-8A the moment we get it. In fact, US Seedcorn has achieved more than 15,000 hours on the aircraft already, with many operators having over 1000 hours each."

This view was echoed by MACr Bushell: "Because the aircraft is already deployed with the US frontline squadrons it's got a pedigree, and the fact that we're embedded in the programme means we already know how to get the best out of the sensors. Being able to see the latest software before we get our aircraft is a real bonus for us, we'll hit the ground running.

"It already does the job, it's good to go and it's got massive development potential which is planned for."

The RAF will receive nine Poseidons which will be operated by 120 and 201 Squadrons from RAF Lossiemouth.

©Crown Copyright Editor: Dylan Eklund
_________________________________________________________

Source; Royal Air Force RAF News

Remember to open the two links included in the first paragraph to gain further information.
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

Unread post by jbryce1437 »

Thanks for the posts Harry, looks a good replacement for the Nimrods.

JIm
HMS Raleigh 1963 , HMS Collingwood 1963 & 67 , HMS Ark Royal 1964-7, HMS Undaunted 1968-71, HMS Victory (Fleet Maintenance Group) 1971-72, HMS Exmouth 1972-74
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Then 28 years in the Fire Brigade
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Thank you Harry , for such a thorough and comprehensive post on a subject close to your heart , which I am confident you will keep on top of , so deepest respect and thanks for all your hard work which you readily share with us all at no small cost to yourself .

I shall make a point of following this closely .
"What Ever Floats your Boat"
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Little h
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Retrettably nothing homegrown to fulfill the function since the demise of the Nimrod.

A short video (1.56 mins) titled:- RAF P-8 Poseidon, introduction

A quick walk-through video worth a viewing methinks.
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Yes another chance to be a world leader flushed down the pan with the Nimrod eh Harry .

Still at least we have a replacement now ...... albeit from abroad
"What Ever Floats your Boat"
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Little h
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Forces Network News
Typhoons To Leave RAF Lossiemouth To Allow Runway Refurbishment


The RAF's Quick Reaction Alert Typhoon fighter jets are to temporarily move away from RAF Lossiemouth next year.
13th September 2018 at 8:35pm



The RAF's Quick Reaction Alert Typhoon fighter jets are to temporarily moved away from RAF Lossiemouth to allow for improvements to the base.

An investment of £400 million is being made in the base to make it ready for the P-8A Poseidon aircraft and an additional Typhoon squadron.

The refurbishment to Lossiemouth includes improvements to the runway, meaning aircraft stationed at the base have to move next year.

The aircraft will be used to protect the UK's submarine-deployed nuclear deterrent and its two new aircraft carriers, according to defence officials.

The US submarine-hunting aircraft will eventually operate from RAF Lossiemouth after £62 million of investment by the United States.

Both Kinloss and Leuchars are Army bases after being repurposed by the Ministry of Defence.

Gavin Williamson cut the first turf for the new home for the Poseidon marine patrol aircraft at RAF Lossiemouth in April.

The changes caused some confusion among politicians at the time, but local MSP for Moray, Richard Lochhead, has since said: "Confirmation of Kinloss' long-term future is needed as it seems it is now needed as back up for Lossiemouth."

An RAF spokesperson said: "During the summer of 2019, routine Typhoon Squadron flying will briefly operate out of Kinloss and the Quick Reaction Alert North function will temporarily relocate to Leuchars.

"The first two P-8A Maritime Patrol Aircraft, that are due to arrive in the UK from February 2020, will be temporarily based at Kinloss Airfield, before moving to their permanent home at RAF Lossiemouth once the main runway has been refurbished."


The new facility at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray is expected to be completed in 2020, coinciding with the initial operation of the UK's new P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft.

The Royal Air Force's Typhoons which serve as the UK's northern Quick Reaction Alert will move briefly operate at the Army base, Leuchars.

Routine Typhoon flying will be based at Kinloss, also an Army base, for around six weeks.

Kinloss will also be the temporary home of the maritime patrol aircraft, P-8A Poseidon, one of the main factors behind the refurbishments at RAF Lossiemouth.

Forces.Net
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Well a necessary evil eh Harry , they are best based there I think we all agree , but thats a hefty refurb bill , which I'm sure are necessary for them to operate efficiently but there are many plates being presented to the mess it seems , and the pot is not bottomless .

Don't know the answer but we can all predict where any axe will fall when the bean counter starts screaming , so its a case of awaiting the inevitable cut backs I feel , or a large injection from the MOD to facilitate the expenditure,.. after all.... look at all this mythical Brexit cost saving's waiting to be spent ;)
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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ivorthediver wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:52 pm Well a necessary evil eh Harry , they are best based there I think we all agree , but thats a hefty refurb bill , which I'm sure are necessary for them to operate efficiently but there are many plates being presented to the mess it seems , and the pot is not bottomless .

Don't know the answer but we can all predict where any axe will fall when the bean counter starts screaming , so its a case of awaiting the inevitable cut backs I feel , or a large injection from the MOD to facilitate the expenditure,.. after all.... look at all this mythical Brexit cost saving's waiting to be spent ;)
Ah don't get me started on all that Ivor ... there was plenty of dosh found for a) Op Telic (Iraq) est. £9.0 Bn+ and Op Herrick (Afghanistan) circa £20.0 bn'ish - and in the case of the latter - the second half of which was conducted whilst the country was allegedly broke and we all went into Op Austerity :x

So what happened when we didn't have to spend all those £bn's? where did the dosh saved as a result go? It was one hell of a 'war' chest that the Chancellors' had at their disposal.
Last edited by Little h on Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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