Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Little h
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

Unread post by Little h »

ivorthediver wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:10 pm yes Harry ........but don't understand how the Poseidon works :oops:

Awacs scans the horizon and detects advisories on radar , classifies the threat and relays the information for others to prosecute .........how does the Poseidon operate in broad terms please barring in mind we are talking about Submarines underwater :?:
Ivor, Page 1, 2nd post this thread; gives an insight to the Poseidon's modus operandi, see:-

Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

Post by Little h » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:50 pm
Submarines are increasingly lurking in seas around the world, and the US Navy's high-tech Poseidon is there to hunt them
Christopher Woody May 14, 2018, 10:40 PM
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ivorthediver
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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We seem to be at cross purposes Harry , but thanks for trying to answer my question , but there seems little to suggest that as a sub hunter it is any better than that which our Merlins already do , albeit on a smaller scale .

given the price and lead time of these aircraft , surveillance of the surface is one thing , and tracking periscopes on the surface is another
and liberal use of the phrase "capable of" is made without any specific info , and reading crew cap tallies at ex thousand feet ....all very good , but WHAT is it ACTUALLY capable of :?:

Yes its fitted with XYZ but what does it actually do , and under what operational conditions .

Need to Know .......fine but with Boeings sales pitch these "Claims" about its capability are already common knowledge to the Russians I'm quite sure , so at the risk of repetition , what and how does it work and under what conditions please .

i e" it can track a sub in a salinity of X in 100m of water of 12 degrees on a sunny day " would be a better indication of its use and application , and if anything approaching this is available they might sell more don't you think :idea:

With the greatest respect to you Harry and your inside knowledge of the subject,... our allies.... like us sell arms ....at a Price to the highest bidder if thought to better the USA's interests ;)
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jbryce1437
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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I would have thought that it's full capabilities are a closely guarded secret, or I would hope so ;)

Jim
HMS Raleigh 1963 , HMS Collingwood 1963 & 67 , HMS Ark Royal 1964-7, HMS Undaunted 1968-71, HMS Victory (Fleet Maintenance Group) 1971-72, HMS Exmouth 1972-74
JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL
Then 28 years in the Fire Brigade
Retired since 2002
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Little h
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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This might give an insight to the activities of ASW airborne assets.

From; The National Interest blog


June 23, 2019 Topic: Security Blog Brand: The Buzz Tags: Falklands WarUnited KingdomArgentinaSubmarinesAircraft Carriers
How an Aircraft Carrier and a Submarine Hunted Each Other During the Falklands War

Who won?
by Sebastien Roblin

On the afternoon of April 30, 1982, the War Cabinet of Prime Minister Margret Thatcher transmitted a message to three Royal Navy submarines in the South Atlantic—designating the carrier Veinticino de Mayo a priority target to be hunted down and destroyed.

The Argentine carrier—ironically, of British origin—posed an unpredictable threat to the Royal Navy taskforce commencing amphibious operations to retake the disputed Falkland Islands following their seizure by Argentinian troops on April 2, 1982.

The ensuing nine-day game of cat-and-mouse between British submarines and the anti-submarine aircraft onboard the Veinticinco is recounted in A Carrier at Risk by Mariano Sciaroni, who compares interviews with Argentine sources with Reports of Proceedings filed by British submariners to shed new light on a formerly obscure subject.

Sciaroni’s book not only serves as a primer for the anti-submarine tactics and technology of the time, but features many maps plotting day-by-day movements of the combatants and numerous photos and color illustrations depicting the vessels and aircraft engaged. Sciaroni also captures the routines and human foibles of wartime life at sea, such as quarrels over stocking snacks in the pilot ready room and fearful crewmen sleeping at their stations in life vests.

The Veinticinco Races for the Coast

By May 1982 three British hunter-killer submarines in Task Force 324 were patrolling exclusives zones around the disputed islands. The older Churchill-class Conqueror hunted south of the Falklands, while more modern and quieter Swiftsure-class attack subs Splendid and Spartan patrolled northwestern and northeastern quadrants respectively.

All three 5,400-ton nuclear-powered submarines could sustain up to 26-30 knots without needing to surface for air and were armed with Mark 24 Tigerfish acoustic homing torpedoes with a range of 13 miles, and World War II-vintage Mark 8 torpedoes designed to fire in a straight line. As the Tigerfishes were unreliable versus surface targets, the short-range Mark 8s were preferred.

The nuclear-powered Courageous and Valiant and the diesel-electric Onyx would arrive later in the conflict.

British intelligence had compromised the Argentina Navy’s Swiss Crypto AG encryption systems and intercepted Argentine plans for a combined carrier strike and surface attack. Aided by CIA spy satellites, the Royal Navy had a general idea of the Argentinian carrier taskforce’s positions but lacked precise coordinates.

In fact, on May 1 one of Veinticinco’s S-2E Tracker planes located the British fleet first. The Veinticinco prepared to launch its A-4Q Skyhawk jets to attack the British carriers—only for the Skyhawks to be grounded by unusually long-lasting dead wind.

Then at midnight, a British Harrier jet located the Argentinian fleet. Hours later, far to the south, the Conqueror torpedoed the cruiser General Belgrano, killing 323 Argentine sailors.

The Veinticinco’s skipper, José Julio Sarcona, realized his taskforce now was on the verge of being annihilated by the Royal Navy’s quantitatively and qualitatively superior forces, so he turned Veinticinco westward and made full steam for the Argentinian coast. However, the carrier’s troublesome boilers limited her to limping at 18-20 knots—meaning the British subs might easily overtake her.

The retreating Veinticinco was firmly in the hunting ground of Splendid under Commander Roger Lane-Nott. Her sistership Spartan could easily have joined the hunt but was denied permission to avoid potential friendly fire incidents.

Tracker versus Swiftsure

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Open the link and read on for an appreciation of ASW in a war zone, albeit with carrier borne Tracker aircraft and shorter range/shorter endurance helicopters etc.
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ivorthediver
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Totally agree Jim , but a little bit of BS never hurt and would alter the Russian deployment factoring if they were advised that their subs could be seen at say 100m then they would need to be at 125 per sae , the point I am struggling to make here is an appreciation of the capabilities rather than specifics would cause them to think twice and if for argument sake they could be detected at 100m off the coast line then that would hamper their task especially around Norwegian and Swedish coastlines were they play cat and mouse games and could for arguments sake lay mines , why pay all that money just to look at them and their collective periscopes .causing wakes in the water :idea: .....

Human nature dictates that if you sell arms to allies you keep the revised or updated version under wraps to safe guard your own interests and let your advisories think everyone has the MK2 version or am I being naive here .

Example seen in WW! , battle of Jutland , where Uk bought a new German detonator system off Krupps for their battle ships guns shells, only to find that during the conflict the German Navy trashed us with their revised detonation set up :idea:

I know I am getting old and cynical but history has a habit of repeating itself you know and biting you on the arse when you least expected it ;)

Still on topic but just trying to get a little of what it does rather than "Capable of " scenario :oops:
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ivorthediver
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

Unread post by ivorthediver »

Thank you Harry ,that paints a whole new picture to the likes of me who have had no Naval combat experience [ other than winding up Comms crew ] so very grateful for that very interesting post which highlights things I was unaware of regarding submarine tactics and limitations which are I assume worldwide in nature .

The capabilities of the " bolt on's" only enhance the Poseidon's range of actions , and assuming that the sonars dropped have improved out of all recognition since the Falklands action and the torpedoes now signifies its ACTUAL potential , so thanks for that, and a happy Bunny now that you have expanded the situational awareness of these events and its limitations .
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Little h
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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CXX Squadron on Twitter
@CXX_Squadron

RAF’s first Poseidon MRA Mk1 took to the skies today. ‘Pride of Moray’. And we are delighted!
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Excellent news Harry , now lets hope they fall in line like dominoes , and get to work pdq ;) thanks for the update
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Could one of RAF’s new 201 aircraft carry island’s name?

News | Published: Aug 3, 2019

THE first of the new fleet of Poseidon anti-submarine warfare, surveillance and search and rescue aircraft for the RAF has been named after Moray, leading to speculation that Guernsey might be honoured in a similar way.

The Poseidon MRS MK1 P-8A aircraft will be based at Lossiemouth, Moray, in Scotland, and will be operated by 120 Squadron and the Guernsey-affiliated 201 Squadron.

201 Squadron was disbanded in 2011 after a UK defence review but it will be reformed by 2021.

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Air commodore and senior responsible owner for the Poseidon programme, Richard Barrow, said it was an exciting time.

‘The Poseidon MRA Mk 1 will enhance the UK’s maritime patrol capability with advanced, state-of-the-art anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare sensors.

Poseidon ZP801 will also carry the name Pride of Moray. This name celebrates the maritime patrol aircraft heritage of Moray as well as looking forward to the Poseidon’s future home in RAF Lossiemouth, Moray, Scotland.’

With the name of the first aircraft announced, it appears possible one of the nine might be named after Guernsey because 201 Squadron will be involved in Poseidon operations.

The reformation of 201 Squadron was announced in 2017 and former Bailiff Sir Geoffrey Rowland, president of the 201 Association, said at the time that he was delighted new life would be given to the affiliation, which dates back to 1939.

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‘We said a la perchoine to the squadron in 2011 and we hoped that the day would come when the UK government would realise that it was necessary to restore a first-class maritime air surveillance capability.

‘Many of us have waited patiently to see if Guernsey’s Own would be re-badged.’

201 Squadron can trace its roots back to the formation of No 1 Squadron, Royal Naval Air Service in 1914.

By Charlotte Le Marquand
News reporter

Source from which the excerpts (above) are copied is guernseypress.com - and where the full article can be read.

(passage advising ZP801's name is bolded by me)
Last edited by Little h on Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poseidon MRA Mk 1

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Stamps celebrate reformation of ‘Guernsey’s Own’ 201 Squadron as RAF marks centenary
Posted on 12th March 2018

Guernsey Post will release stamps to celebrate the reformation of No 201 Squadron, which will be back in action from 2021 flying the new P-8 anti- submarine warfare (ASW) aircraft (stamp issue date – 3 April 2018).

The Squadron, known as ‘Guernsey’s Own’, dates back to 1914 when it formed as No 1 Squadron, Royal Naval Service in 1914, before becoming 201 Squadron when the RAF was established in 1918. 201 Squadron had a distinguished record flying fighter and reconnaissance aircraft before it was formally disbanded in 2011 following the Government’s Strategic Defence and Security Review.

201 Squadron specialised in maritime reconnaissance, part of which involved Search and Rescue operations as undertaken by the Nimrod MR2P (46p stamp) and flown by the Squadron from its base at RAF Kinloss. The Squadron had been preparing to fly the Nimrod MRA4, the MR2’s replacement, before the new aircraft was cancelled.

In 1940 the Squadron operated the Short Sunderland flying boat, which made a major contribution to the Allied war effort protecting convoys crossing the Atlantic and sinking a total of 5 U-boats between 1943 and 1944, including the U-440 (62p stamp).

...... the article continues on the sepac Small European Postal Administration Cooperations website and includes an image of stamp.
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