General Naval Topics

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Pelican
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General Naval Topics

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Why do peacetime naval accidents keep happening?
2017 was an especially bad year for fatal naval accidents. Then last week the Norwegian frigate KNM Helge Ingstad collided with an oil tanker and is was run onto rocks in a vain attempt to prevent her sinking. There have always been serious accidents involving warships and submarines during peacetime operations but with the advent of modern navigation technologies, there is some surprise that these incidents keep happening. Here we look briefly at the circumstances of some of the accidents and what might be learned from them.
Full article - https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/why-do ... BIgeZQEDjg
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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ivorthediver
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Re: General Naval Topics

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Interesting post David , but will anything come of it , as most are less worried about cost , more about arse covering it seems .

The post lists most of the recent events but none about prevention of reoccurrence and so the list continues :(
"What Ever Floats your Boat"
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Pelican
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Re: General Naval Topics

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ivorthediver wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:30 pm Interesting post David , but will anything come of it , as most are less worried about cost , more about arse covering it seems .

The post lists most of the recent events but none about prevention of reoccurrence and so the list continues :(
Received this earlier from one who made it from Boy to Cdr.:
"As an “old and bold” open bridge watchkeeping officer I attribute a lot of these accidents to too much time in enclosed bridges which are nothing much more than extensions of the Ops Room. I recall being on the open bridge on many occasions in near-blinding rain and howling winds and the Captain calling up “Shift the watch to the lower bridge” and responding with something like “not all that bad up here sir”. I usually lost my case but I much preferred being up there in the elements where I felt “at one” with the sea – and the shipping – around me."
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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Little h
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Re: General Naval Topics

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Pelican wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:12 pm
ivorthediver wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:30 pm Interesting post David , but will anything come of it , as most are less worried about cost , more about arse covering it seems .
The post lists most of the recent events but none about prevention of reoccurrence and so the list continues :(
Received this earlier from one who made it from Boy to Cdr.:
"As an “old and bold” open bridge watchkeeping officer I attribute a lot of these accidents to too much time in enclosed bridges which are nothing much more than extensions of the Ops Room. I recall being on the open bridge on many occasions in near-blinding rain and howling winds and the Captain calling up “Shift the watch to the lower bridge” and responding with something like “not all that bad up here sir”. I usually lost my case but I much preferred being up there in the elements where I felt “at one” with the sea – and the shipping – around me."
Lamp Swinging coming up!! as one who made it from Boy to Chief Tel(S) :) ;
As a reasonably "old and bold" watchkeeper from the 3rd W/T office on the flag deck I would oft times clamber up the vertical ladder on to the open bridges on both Saintes D84 and Camperdown D32. On occasions I would assist the buntings on the Signal Lamps and/or complete the message pad as the visual signals were received. I can attest to the bracing nature of the fresh (sea) air when on an open bridge during two Iceland Patrols and naval exercises off the Lofoton Islands near Tromso - my only reward 2x Blue Nose Certificates in consecutive years 24-9-1959(Saintes) and 25-9-1960 (Camperdown) :)

The skipper of Camperdown Cdr. 'Revs' Risden would announce the arrival in a lighthearted manner, proclaiming:- "here is one of the pale-faced sparkers come to join us"!!..... There was a compartment on the open bridge that wasn't directly open to the elements, that was the ASDIC room (sic) more like a cubby hole but it did have a sturdy wooden sliding door. It was located down a couple of steps on the port side, fwd and under the wind baffles.

End of dit but I'm sure there could be more.
Little h
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ivorthediver
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Re: General Naval Topics

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Well Harry as far as I am concerned " as many as often as you can" always immerse myself in the storey [ that should bring some comment I'm sure :roll: ]
"What Ever Floats your Boat"
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Pelican
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Re: General Naval Topics

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NAVY NUMBERS CRISIS LEAVES SHIPS IN PERIL

A senior officer says the service has lost its sense of fun and trust, and its flagships are left docked or undermanned

Royal Navy warships are being left tied up with their “lights turned off” because of a “profound” shortage of sailors, a navy warfare officer has warned.

Lieutenant Commander Andrew Livsey says the personnel crisis is so serious there are “barely” enough sailors to run four of the six £1bn Type 45 destroyers and ships are going to sea without people to maintain or operate equipment “that would be vital in wartime”.

The navy’s shortfall of 1,350 people is being aggravated by the need to operate two new aircraft carriers. In 1991 the force had 61,800 sailors, marines and airmen, but numbers have dropped from 35,150 in 2010 to 29,160 last month.

Livsey believes the reason for all the missing sailors is “probably that we made life in the Royal Navy less fun, less certain and harder work”.

Top brass is out of touch with other sailors because “unlike in previous generations” few officers above his rank, the equivalent of an army major, regularly serve at sea, he believes. Writing in the Naval Review journal, Livsey says senior officers are “rarely hard-hearted” but adds: “Unfortunately, their view is different from that of many in the service.”

The lieutenant commander, who has served on frontline frigates, highlights 26 “pinch-point” trades where skill shortages “affect the fleet’s output”.

A dearth of signallers on four offshore patrol vessels has led to talks about tying one of them up in port, he claims, and there is little prospect of resolving 25 of the “pinch points” before 2027.

Figures released last month showed that four frigates — HMS Iron Duke, HMS Portland, HMS Lancaster and HMS Richmond — have not spent a day at sea so far this year.

HMS Daring, a destroyer, is berthed in Portsmouth with no crew because of the personnel shortage, sources claim.

“Despite desperate attempts to increase the headcount, the naval service has declined in size for the past five years in a row,” says Livsey.

Elaborating on what went wrong, he writes: “We made the relationship between the individual and the service more contractual and trust in our leaders reduced because of the increasing gap between what they said and what was experienced.” Most of these issues were now being tackled, he added.

Livsey also writes that the navy cut its recruitment budget by £3m in 2016-17 despite a 10% shortfall in recruiting.

The Royal Navy disputed that it would take until 2027 to solve its personnel problems or that it was considering tying up one of its offshore patrol vessels.

“More than 96% of the navy’s posts are filled and we maintain a global presence, with nearly 9,000 personnel either deployed, getting ready to deploy, or standing at high readiness,” a naval spokesman said.

Above is from today's Sunday Times.

For details of Navy Review journal go to - https://www.naval-review.com/about-the-naval-review/
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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ivorthediver
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Re: General Naval Topics

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Well a very worrying state of affairs , as indeed you have pointed out before David , and whilst the author of this report will probably suffer for voicing these facts he is Right , and the ministry comments about all being well are a load of rowlocks

Had they not been so quick to downsize so many crew a short while back we may have been in a better position and evidence of this has been known a while [ look at all the retired and beached Naval staff they tried to lure back not long ago]

We know other Navy's have the same problems but so far no one seems to have resolved the issue :(
"What Ever Floats your Boat"
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Pelican
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Re: General Naval Topics

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Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson has revealed he is protecting HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion from spending cuts.
Williamson said:
“To deliver what seems impossible, the Royal Marines need to be able to bring the fight from the sea to the land. As such, I am happy to announce today that I am protecting their vital landing platforms HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark.”
Continues at - https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/albion- ... 1Mz2CMsdCQ
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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Little h
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Re: General Naval Topics

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Pelican wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:28 pm Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson has revealed he is protecting HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion from spending cuts.
Williamson said:
“To deliver what seems impossible, the Royal Marines need to be able to bring the fight from the sea to the land. As such, I am happy to announce today that I am protecting their vital landing platforms HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark.”
Continues at - https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/albion- ... 1Mz2CMsdCQ
Bit dated David;

Sky News (amongst others) reported that very same passage 22:21, UK, Sunday 30 September 2018, as part of an article titled:-

Royal Navy's amphibious ships won't be scrapped or sold, says defence secretary
By Alistair Bunkall, defence and security correspondent

See the full article (including that passage) here
Little h
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Pelican
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Re: General Naval Topics

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FROM NAVY NEWS:

The three first generation fishery patrol ships will continue to serve in home waters.

HM Ships Tyne, Mersey and Severn are being retained by the Royal Navy – alongside their five second-generation cousins which are beginning to enter service.

The Batch 1 trio, which have been in service for 15 years mostly on fishery protection duties but also patrolling the Caribbean and Mediterranean when needed, will continue under the White Ensign for at least two more years, Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson declared.

Tyne was on the cusp of paying off in May and Severn decommissioned in October 2017, with Mersey due to follow them later.

Instead, Mr Williamson said each ship would now be ‘forward based’ on its namesake river (using Portsmouth as their long-term homes for extended maintenance), helping to perform fishery protection duties for up to 600 days a year.

In addition, the Rivers act as the eyes and ears of the RN around the UK, gathering intelligence, monitoring possible illegal activity such as people trafficking or drug running, and keeping an eye on foreign vessels passing Britain, notably Russian warships in the North Sea and Channel.

“Britain’s patrol vessels are essential to protecting our waters, our fisheries and our national security. Safeguarding the future of these three ships in the Royal Navy will ensure we can respond quickly to incidents at any time, further protecting our waters as we exit the EU,” Mr Williamson said on a visit to HMS Tyne in the North East.

“By forward-operating these ships from their affiliated locations across the country, including the Tyne, it will not only allow them to react quickly, but also strengthen the bonds between the Royal Navy and local communities.”

Mr Williamson also told the people of Tyneside that the Geordie Gunboat would soon return, naming the sixth Type 26 frigate HMS Newcastle, joining Glasgow (in build), Cardiff and Belfast (ordered) and London and Birmingham (Batch 2).

And ship seven of eight will be named HMS Sheffield – revealed by defence minister Stuart Andrew on a visit to that city.

Both cities enjoyed close relations with Type 42 destroyers which carried their names around the globe: HMS Newcastle served until 2005; Sheffield was lost in the Falklands, to be replaced by a Type 22 frigate of the same name which decommissioned in 2003.
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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