Communications Department Staff of Ships, Flag Officers and Shore Stations

[Pelican]

a) there is a FCPO or WO
b) there is an RS/RCI
c) there are CRS/RCI's and/or CCYInstr's
d) there is an LRO qualified as an RS

So; over to ye olde Ch. Tel. (whom will hopefully look in) .... who takes precedence 'communication wise'; the FCRS/WO or the CRS/RCI? Oh yes another query ... as far as I am aware all FCRS did not have to have been qualified as a CRS/RCI to become a Fleet Chief or Warrant Officer.

TU Harry, I hav'nt a clue what FCPOs are/were or what they did. Or Upper Yardsmen for that matter.

The few FCRS's that I came across before leaving in 1974 were 'employed' exclusively in an administrative capacity. The guy in the photo I suspect was probably the Comms Branch Sub Divisional Officer (Sub DO) or even DO .... such an arrangement would leave the qualified SD(C) Communicatins Officer (SCO) to function professionally at the apex of the department.

Harry I asked the questions and have received these answers so far, will leave you to sort out the wheat from the chaff:

John Jones I came out 69 so no WO in my time. Remember Instructors in EW SECTION North Camp Mercs. Had stars underneath the Sparkers badge on the lapel as I recall. Maybe there was a Fleet Chief as well but not sure.

Lewis David Rees Stars underneath the badge (with a crown on top) indicated a S/R classed as an Instructor in their field -- I think.

Chris Way TCI or RCI, Tactical or Radio Communications Instructors

Ian Stevens Used to indicate, one star a scale A Chief and two stars an instructor.
Remember Alan Tufts changing from EWI with wings and stars to EWI with spiders web and stars renamed himself a CHOPSEWI

Dave Morris Blimey - where to start A Fleet Chief/WO on a carrier was borne as ASCO and could be sparker or bunting. TCIs were usually drafted to Captain Fs or Admiral staffs (eg FOFs). Promotion to FC/WO did not have Instructor rate as a prequisite, particularly as these disappeared with the introduction of the Ops Branch. Upper Yardsman was someone selected for officer at a young age who left their branch and joined Dartmouth as a standard officer entry. Clear as mud

Dave Morris There was some twenty years gap between Commissioned Warrant and Fleet Chief and the Commissioned Warrant was a wardroom officer. Fleet Chief was introduced to bring the RN into line with the other armed forces who had always had a non-commissioned rank. The problem was that initially the RN were never quite sure how to use the Fleet Chief and some of those early promotions were quite frustrated. I spent 11 years as an FCCY/WOCY and spent all that time in comms jobs Having an appointer gave you a choice of jobs.

Reg Mortimer The first selections for FCRS/FCCY were made in 1971 there was not a FCRS(W) in the first selection. Selections were made every six months for about two years and after that became annual selections made in March for promotion the following September. On selection you were awarded the Queen’s Warrant which stated that hence forward you would be a Warrant Officer in her Majesty’s service. The title Fleet Chief was a written title as officers addressed you as Mr and ratings junior addressed you as sir. A lot of middle to senior ranking officers ie Commander/captain did not agree with the introduction of the new rank. This meant that on promotion the new FCPO’s dropped their branch badges but kept their buttons and displayed one warrant badge on there left sleeve. This ridiculous situation persisted for a couple of years. Then the buttons were removed and the warrant badge displayed on both sleeves. I left the service in 1983 and later the navy finally got the message and at last brought in the proper title of Warrant Officer. However make no mistake they were all warrant officers from the day of first promotions in 1971. Small foot note I took the last EWI course in 1973/4. I don’t think Alan Tufts ever qualified for EWI. Reg Mortimer

Dave Morris I was at Portland when they changed the title to Warrant Officer. A number of officers asked me how I liked the new title - my standard response was - `Can't get excited - WOCY is the 17th different title that I have had in the RN'

[Little h]

TU Harry, I hav'nt a clue what FCPOs are/were or what they did...............

The few FCRS's that I came across before leaving in 1974 were 'employed' exclusively in an administrative capacity. The guy in the photo I suspect was probably the Comms Branch Sub Divisional Officer (Sub DO) or even DO .... such an arrangement would leave the qualified SD(C) Communicatins Officer (SCO) to function professionally at the apex of the department.

Harry I asked the questions and have received these answers so far, will leave you to sort out the wheat from the chaff:

Chris Way TCI or RCI, Tactical or Radio Communications Instructors

Dave Morris Blimey - where to start A Fleet Chief/WO on a carrier was borne as ASCO and could be sparker or bunting. TCIs were usually drafted to Captain Fs or Admiral staffs (eg FOFs). Promotion to FC/WO did not have Instructor rate as a prequisite,

Cheers for the follow up David.

Those answers that I have bolded (above) have confirmed my understanding of the Fleet Chief rate.

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I left Ganges to join Mercury first week June 1959. Qualified JRO(S) in North Camp in July 1959 and didn't return to the said establishment until April 1962 for killicks course. Passed and left in Aug 62. Made final visit to Mercury Nov 1963 to attend an (S) branch Selection Board. After selection I never returned whilst serving.

[Pelican]

HMS CAVALIER, CHATHAM DOCKYARD, 2ND JUNE 2019

Stewart Challis: Spent another day operating GB2CAV from the BWO on CAVALIER and took this photo believed to be the last Watch and Station Bill for the Comms department. Anyone recognise any names or is it just made up for display purposes?

[Pelican]

From: Keith Morison‎ On Facebook:

CY Flynn was my first instructor in HMS Ganges (238 Class, 83 Recruitment - Exmouth Division). He disappeared half way through the course - several stories about why, but we never really found out what happened. I liked him.
Here he is in the photo - middle row 3rd from left.

[Pelican]

HMS BULWARK 1974-75

[Pelican]

R.N.B. - R.N.T.E. SHOTLEY - H.M.S. GANGES

The Wireless Divsion November 1918.

[Pelican]

R.N.T.E. Shotley, Wireless School, 1917.

[DaveH]

Wonder if any of them are still with us David ?

[Pelican]

Wonder if any of them are still with us David ?

Not ye olde Chiefs Dave but maybe some of the Boys if they survived WW II.

[Pelican]

R.N.T.E. Shotley, Wireless School, 1917.

Following from an Oppo who takes an interest in naval uniforms:
"I've enlarged the photo as much as I could and the best bet is to start with the man with the dog. This is a Royal Marine. It looks like a grenade in his cap badge so would be RM Artillery. I can't really make out how much scrambled egg he has on his cap peak. Although it looks like one row I think it should be two as one row is for Brigadiers, Cols, Lt Cols & Majors, a bit high ranking for HMS Ganges. I would think he'd be more of a General Officer such as Lt. or Captain. The Naval Officer to his left is a Chief Warrant Officer 'not' of the Executive (military) Branch as it seems only the Civil Branch would have a ring with 3 buttons under it and no curl. The Officer to the right of the Marine seems to be a Chief Warrant Officer of the executive branch, because, although it looks like a button on or just above the ring I think in fact it is the 'curl' of the ring. The Officer to the right of him has just 3 buttons on his cuff with no ring which makes him a Warrant Officer of the Executive Branch. I will just add that the RM came under Army Dress Regs except for certain small points exclusive to them. Also looking at the photo It seems the executive branch Chief Warrant Officer with the curl on the ring is seated centre with 7 men to his right and 7 men to has left which I think makes him the 'boss man'
Although a bit complicated, hope you can understand what I've written, I think I've got it right."