Aerials and/or Arrays

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Little h
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Aerials and/or Arrays

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NVIS (Near Vertical Incident Skywave) aerial array.

A Type HF230L-N (or similar) compact HF aerial array for naval applications (frequency range of 1.6 to 30 MHz) - in this instance mounted on the RFA Lyme Bay (L3007) and not previously observed (by me).

This Datasheet (3 pages) should provide sufficient detail of the equipment featured in this post.
Note; the last two images at the bottom of page 3 show the installation on board HMS Ocean (L12).

RFA Lyme Bay L3007 DmLYHxJW4AAHilK via twitter - Copy.jpg



An example of this type of aerial array (or similar) was installed on HMS Ocean (L12) and sited on the stbd side fwd of the mainmast and immediatly aft of the funnel/exhaust uptake housing. The aerial array was also configured at an angle (45deg)(?) with the leading edge directed towards the port bow and the trailing edge towards the stbd qtr.
The following two attachments should enable comparison with the Lyme Bay (L3007) installation:-


z HMS_Ocean_(L12)_08_@chesi commons wiki - Copy.JPG
z HMS_Ocean_(L12)_19_@chesi wiki (2).JPG
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Little h
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ivorthediver
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Re: Aerials and/or Arrays

Unread post by ivorthediver »

Thought occurred to me about Ariels the other day Harry , and I only know one matloe who could answer it so here goes


On a resent photo of HMS Daring the masts seem [to the untrained eye] to have identical stubby Ariels adorned around there multi faceted main mast and in some cases all four corners


Surely in these days of high tech one would suffice, so why so many ,,,,were they bought Job lot .....or are they not omni Directional , or do they serve differing functions please
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Little h
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Re: Aerials and/or Arrays

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ivorthediver wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:25 pm Thought occurred to me about Ariels the other day Harry , and I only know one matloe who could answer it so here goes

On a resent photo of HMS Daring the masts seem [to the untrained eye] to have identical stubby Ariels adorned around there multi faceted main mast and in some cases all four corners

Surely in these days of high tech one would suffice, so why so many ,,,,were they bought Job lot .....or are they not omni Directional , or do they serve differing functions please
Interesting observation Ivor.

Type 45 Destroyer Daring Class -Comms Mast; we must think of both FICS45 (Fully Integrated Communications System) and CESM (Cryptologic Electronic Warfare Support Measures) and .... although not the installation on the Darings, the following description from R&S relating to the their system is a good guide as to the function of these types of array(s), see:-

Integrated antenna system for communications and electronic support
If an ES system is to have optimal performance, it is preferable that an integrated antenna solution be placed on the top of the mast. The integrated antenna system from Rohde & Schwarz incorporates a concept for ES and radio-communications on a single mast. It allows monitoring and direction finding of communications and radar signals plus radio transmission and reception, providing wide coverage and reliable operation.

Integrated antenna system
integrated antenna system withstands extreme environmental conditions, in particular shock and electric discharge. Moreover, its minimized radar cross-section limits the exposure to enemy reconnaissance.

Installed on top of the stacked communications antennas, the R&S®ACD001 antenna system overlooks all obstacles on board the vessel, giving it the widest coverage and yielding the most accurate direction finding results. The R&S®ACD001 can also be mounted independently of the
communications antennas.


Source; Chapter 4 in PDF document titled Solutions for Navy Rohde & Schwarz
scroll down to PDF pages 56-59

--------------------------------------------------------

Further;
The three stacked arrays comprising 4 x folded dipoles (separated by discs), currently form the most visible element of the Comms mast on five of the Type 45's - the sixth, Defender (D36) has a further addition to the as built configuration of omni aerial arrays, mounted yet higher on the Comms mast, and again an omni array forming an element of the newly installed UK 'Shaman' CESM

I recently covered that installation in the Domes, cones & Cylinder Shaped Sensors thread, the opening post of which includes several paragraphs broadly describing the function of Shaman - an additional two links can also be opened in that post.

Here is an excerpt from an article in Aerospace & Defence News dated way back to 2011, see:-

UK - Ship's Signal Exploitation Equipment Increment F
The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress Wednesday of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of the United Kingdom of seven Ship's Signal Exploitation Equipment (SSEE) Increment F, and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $90 million. The Government of the United Kingdom (UK) has requested the sale of seven Ship's Signal Exploitation Equipment (SSEE) Increment F, seven Selective Availability Anti-Spoofing Modules (SAASM) GPS Receivers, and seven System Signal and Direction Finding Stimulator packages, spare and repair parts, personnel training and training equipment, support equipment, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, logistics, and technical support services, testing, publications and technical documentation, Fleet Information Operation Center upgrades, installation, life cycle support, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $90 million. This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to maintain and improve the security of a key NATO partner that has been, and continues to be, an important force for political stability and economic power in Europe. The UK is procuring SSEE increment F as a Cryptologic Electronic Warfare Support Measure (CESM) replacement program for the Cooperative Outboard Logistics Update (COBLU) currently fitted on Type 22 Frigates and it will be the future maritime CESM system fitted on the Type 45 Destroyers. It is expected the UK will be able to fully absorb and utilize the Communications Intelligence (COMINT) system and capability. The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

Source: Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA)
Date: Jul 6, 2011
Little h
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ivorthediver
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Re: Aerials and/or Arrays

Unread post by ivorthediver »

Thank you Harry , please forgive my ignorance on these matters , my mindset is embedded on mechanical systems and I have scant knowledge of the art of electrikory but I did handle some Zena Diodes and Klystron high voltage Valves many moons ago :oops:

My mind set seems " akinder" with radiated signals as I tend to think that once sent it can travel through anything in any direction until power was depleted yet here we have a multifaceted mast with what appears to be a repetition of devices assigned to the same task .

So when explaining things to me " Keep It Simple" and basic and my mind MIGHT grasp the reasons :oops: and I can picture this benevolent Scouse Cringing with outrage and uttering blasphemous mutterings in sheer horror at my questions .......so be gentle with this ignoramus please .
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Little h
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Re: Aerials and/or Arrays

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OK Ivor,

Here is an example of an RN array that gives the appearance of duplication, versions/variants of which could be seen installed on Type 22 Frigates; Type 42 Destroyers; Invincible Class Carriers; Ocean L12 LPH: .... Also theType 23 Frigates and Albion Class LPD's

An explanation for what appears to be duplication of aerial arrays, in this instance the RN type AJK pole mounted aerial array, is given in the 'Brief Description' in this PDF page

These arrays may also have the capabality of integration with other systems on board (some or all) of the ship types included above - although I am not certain about that :oops: .


Re the Type 45's;

The bottom and middle combinations of four folded dipoles appear to be of the same dimensions possibly indicating VHF(?), whilst the top combination of four folded dipoles are smaller possiby indicating UHF(?). Note also the distance between the screen disks.
Little h
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ivorthediver
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Re: Aerials and/or Arrays

Unread post by ivorthediver »

Thank you Harry , your a Gent,...... and even I understood that Diagram , so again my thanks pal ......
"What Ever Floats your Boat"
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Little h
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Re: Aerials and/or Arrays

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Elongated 'V' Log Periodic Aerial (LPA) array - (On bridge roof port side)

Remember this type of array on the Type 45, Daring Class Destroyers (images posted on the old forum)?
1 HMS Daring 170112 029 gibdan.JPG
1 Diamond D34 MOD 45157604.jpg



Well, the RAN, Hobart Class AWD's appear to be similarily configured, see:-
, Med-ResAWDSHIP1_-63 - Copy (2).jpg
, Hi-ResNuShipBrisbaneTrials-173 (4).jpg
, hmas hobart commissioning promo330755156 - Copy (2).jpg

Attachments &/or Attributions:-
- the 3rd, 4th attachments are derived from images on the Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance website
- the 5th attachment is derived from an image on the Australian Government Department of Defence website
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Little h
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ivorthediver
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Re: Aerials and/or Arrays

Unread post by ivorthediver »

Well no chance of me getting complacent......what with you, Dennis, and Brian being around , I never fully appreciated the diversification applied to your specialist spheres of activity on the old WNSF , either that or I hadn't noticed but on our new Forum you guys are coming to the forefront , not just posting links :evil: .....which frankly drove me up the wall , but explaining by example.... what you have found , why , and offering comparisons :idea: by way of explanation.

Thank you all for taking the time and trouble to inform us ALL not just me ......by appreciating the fact that we aren't all EX Navy , and displaying YOUR expertise without being condescending about it ..........it neither goes un-noticed - nor unappreciated..... :)
"What Ever Floats your Boat"
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Little h
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Re: Aerials and/or Arrays

Unread post by Little h »

NVIS (Near Vertical Incident Skywave) loop antenna/aerial array

Hunt Class MCMV HMS Hurworth (M39) - (and others for comparison purposes)

Observed in a photograph of said vessel what appears to be an NVIS loop antenna/aerial array mounted near the stbd quarter within a Radhaz area outline.

This is the only vessel in this class on which I have observed such an array.

Attachments
1st - Hurworth (M39); showing what is possibly an NVIS loop antenna/aerial array (highlighted by a red outline)
2nd - Hurworth (M39}; with a light weight whip antenna/aerial mounted in the same location (highlighted by a red outline and arrows)
3rd - Hurworth (M39); view of the same(similar) whip antenna/aerial as in 2nd attachment.
1 HMS_Hurworth_MOD_45151313.jpg
1b HMS HURWORTH Crew 6 DfGwphyW4AAL97e twitter.jpg
1c HMS Hurworth M39 wiki commons - Copy.jpg


4th - Brocklesby (M33); showing what appears to be a more substantial type whip antenna/aerial mounted in the same location and with a guard surrounding the bottom element of the whip.

1d HMS Brocklesby sails from HMNB Clyde for the final time MOD_45146489 & wiki (2).jpg

5th - Quorn (M41); similar type whip antenna/aerial as in 4th attachment plus the Radhaz outline on the deck surrounding the whip base.
1e HMS Quorn is pictured as she departs from Portsmouth. MOD_45139064 wiki.jpg


Note; I imagine that had Rob Hoole of Minewarfare & Clearance Diving Officers' Association (MCDOA) and WNSF, been on this forum, there may have been no need for this post.
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Little h
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Re: Aerials and/or Arrays

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In a setting similar to that portrayed in this photo at a buoy in Sliema Creek - I was summoned down from the attending to the SHF/DF horns (indicated in red) atop the foremast on Camperdown (D32) to attend the First Lieutenant's or was it the Captain's table .... for promotion to Radio Operator (Special) 2nd class. So, clamber down mast, proceed aft, shower etc, clean into white's and dash fwd to Wardroom Flat or Skipper's cabin or some such location - promoted - back aft to messdeck, clean into working gear and return fwd and aloft to the top of foremast. What a palavar!!!
1st DS HMS Camperdown D32 (2) - Copy.jpg


Now compare that escapade with the way the USN do things - they even send a Naval Officer aloft to the port yardarm to enlist a sailor..... job first - tradition second - classic solution. ;)
Arleigh Burke-class destroyer USS Ross (DDG 71)..jpg


Photo; gcaptain.com via retrowar
and
Wiki Commons - MEDITERRANEAN SEA (May 3, 2017) Lt. Cmdr. Ben McCarty, second from left, reenlists Information Systems Technician 2nd Class Nikki Duffy on the yardarm of the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Ross (DDG 71). Ross, forward-deployed to Rota, Spain, is conducting naval operations in the U.S. 6th Fleet area of operations in support of U.S. national security interests in Europe and Africa. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Robert S. Price/Released)170503-N-FQ994-198.
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