Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

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Little h
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by Little h »

Pelican wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:31 pm The FAA currently have/will have about 19 NAS any of which can be operating with the QEC depending on current demands and situations see:
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/our-organi ... et-air-arm

If they are all listed in the F.A.A. Section it will be easier to keep track of them whatever their and the QEC task.

Spare a thought for older members - 'A convoy moves at the speed of the slowest ship.'
Whilst not all of the 19ish Naval Air Squadron planes will operate from a carrier (e.g. Grob & Hawk) I take onboard your reasons for placing the NAS's in a FAA Forum and would not contest such a move.

However, I contend that the QEC carriers deserve the two threads that I have suggested in order to record the variety of airframes/types operating from either or both at any one time. Bear in mind the terminology is apparently CV Wing.

Excerpt from an article in Save The Royal Navy - May 13, 2019 (The CVW was formerly referred to as the ‘Tailored Air Group’ but has since been Americanised). USMC jets are also likely to spend some time aboard QE in 2020 before the operational deployment the following year.

To muddy the waters a tad more we will soon have to contend with finding a place for posts relating to excursions such as Carrier Strike Group (CSG21) and subsequent annual jaunts.
Little h
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Pelican
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by Pelican »

May I offer this for consideration regarding future threads?

First aircraft lands on new carrier HMS Prince of Wales
By George Allison - September 23, 2019135
A Merlin helicopter has become the first aircraft to land on carrier HMS Prince of Wales.

The aircraft carrier is currently on the first phase of sea trials which will look at platform stability and manoeuvrability.
Another monumental day in the history of HMSPWLS with our first deck landing!
The RoyalNavy Merlin Helicopter (Callsign Dolphin 14) from 820NAS touched down at 1115 under the control of Navy pilot Lt Rob Prior. FlyNavy PWLS a tSea

READ MORE: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... raft-lands

At present, the ship’s company (around 600 people say the Royal Navy) are focusing on a successful spell of sea trials, having prepared for months, gradually bringing the many systems, sensors and items of machinery from the galley to the main engines into life.
They are joined for the trials by a team of 320 civilian contractors.
What will the vessel carry when in service?

The term now used for the carriers embarked squadrons is ‘Carrier Air Wing’ (CVW). The vessels are capable of deploying a variety of aircraft in large numbers, up to a maximum in the upper fifties in surge conditions but around 40 aircraft will likely be the usual maximum.

F-35Bs on HMS Queen Elizabeth.
In addition to the joint force of Royal Air Force and Royal Navy F-35Bs and their pilots, the air wing is expected to be composed of a ‘Maritime Force Protection’ package of nine anti-submarine Merlin HM2 and four or five Merlin for airborne early warning; alternatively a ‘Littoral Manoeuvre’ package could include a mix of RAF Chinooks, Army Apaches, Merlin HC4 and Wildcat HM2.

It is my understanding that vessel would still carry at least one F-35 squadron aboard in such circumstances to offer air defence as well as support to the helicopter assault activities.

The Crowsnest AEW&C aircraft will come from a number of the embarked Merlins (any of which can be fitted with the sensor package), the number again scaling with requirements.

Uniquely for a vessel of this type, it will be common to see the jump-jet F-35B appear to land conventionally. This is a process called Shipborne Rolling Vertical Landing (SRVL). It is a process designed to land jump-jet aircraft that uses both the vertical thrust from the jet engine and lift from the wings, thus maximising the payload an aircraft can return with and stopping the financial waste that comes with dropping expensive weaponry in the sea in order to land vertically.

Article is at - https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/first-a ... 2jF5VX2_qc

I would just like to add that we think carefully before making changes as I'm sure Jim will not want more changes in the future as he has enough to do. Unless Jim disagrees I will start NAS threads as and when. Incidentally what is the policy of posting on 2 threads? e.g. Can future posts appear on a NAS thread and Harry's proposed 'airwing' threads for each carrier, a compromise?
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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Little h
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by Little h »

Pelican wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:52 pm May I offer this for consideration regarding future threads?

---------------------------------

I would just like to add that we think carefully before making changes as I'm sure Jim will not want more changes in the future as he has enough to do. Unless Jim disagrees I will start NAS threads as and when. Incidentally what is the policy of posting on 2 threads? e.g. Can future posts appear on a NAS thread and Harry's proposed 'airwing' threads for each carrier, a compromise?
I already use the compromise of 'X' referencing; even when I've not made one of the posts .... a simply cross reference seems to do the trick ;)
Little h
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jbryce1437
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by jbryce1437 »

Originally, the Fleet Air Arm thread in the photos section was meant to be for photographs of Fleet Air Arm aircrft and the Aircrafts of the Fleets section was to be a single thread for each of the navies of the world, for general discussion about them and their aircraft/squadrons/airwings and airgroups.
With the addition of all of the new Naval Air Squadron threads, it is feasible that posts regarding a particular type of aircraft can now be made on a multitude of threads.
As suggested, I recently renamed the F35B - Lightning II thread to HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing and now another thread entitled F35B - Lockheed Lightening II has been created. Pretty soon we are going to have more threads than aircraft so I think there has to be some merging of subjects into single threads, rather than having discussions and duplicate discussions on the same/similar subjects spread across a multitude of threads.
Not all references to Naval Aircraft on the internet refer to them by Squadron name, but only by the type of aircraft.
If necessary, posts are moved to the most relevant thread on the subject, but with so many threads on different aircraft/airwings/airgroups/squadrons, it will be a more difficult job.
Duplicating posts, particularly photographs, only fills up our server more quickly. A simple cross reference, without duplicate photos, is sufficient to get the word across.
The Royal Naval Air Stations (RNAS) is correctly located in the Shore Bases section.

Jim
HMS Raleigh 1963 , HMS Collingwood 1963 & 67 , HMS Ark Royal 1964-7, HMS Undaunted 1968-71, HMS Victory (Fleet Maintenance Group) 1971-72, HMS Exmouth 1972-74
JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL
Then 28 years in the Fire Brigade
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Pelican
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by Pelican »

jbryce1437 wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:44 pm Originally, the Fleet Air Arm thread in the photos section was meant to be for photographs of Fleet Air Arm aircrft and the Aircrafts of the Fleets section was to be a single thread for each of the navies of the world, for general discussion about them and their aircraft/squadrons/airwings and airgroups.
With the addition of all of the new Naval Air Squadron threads, it is feasible that posts regarding a particular type of aircraft can now be made on a multitude of threads.
As suggested, I recently renamed the F35B - Lightning II thread to HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing and now another thread entitled F35B - Lockheed Lightening II has been created. Pretty soon we are going to have more threads than aircraft so I think there has to be some merging of subjects into single threads, rather than having discussions and duplicate discussions on the same/similar subjects spread across a multitude of threads.
Not all references to Naval Aircraft on the internet refer to them by Squadron name, but only by the type of aircraft.
If necessary, posts are moved to the most relevant thread on the subject, but with so many threads on different aircraft/airwings/airgroups/squadrons, it will be a more difficult job.
Duplicating posts, particularly photographs, only fills up our server more quickly. A simple cross reference, without duplicate photos, is sufficient to get the word across.
The Royal Naval Air Stations (RNAS) is correctly located in the Shore Bases section.

Jim
Guilty me lord - I could'nt find the F35B thread so Aircraft of the Fleets seemed to be the most logical.
Most UK F35Bs are allocated to a RAF Squadron and the rest to the conversion squadron.
'Our' FAA squadron is a little way off yet.
Request guidance please Jim.
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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Little h
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by Little h »

I see other difficulties around the corner guys.

At the upper end I already mentioned that we will have CSG 21 (Carrier Strike Group 2021) and very likely at least one every year for another 45 years.

At the lower end we can read that 215 NAS already has 15 'flights' ... so how many more 'flights' will there be when all the helo squadrons are given threads?

Not forgetting the choppers carried/operated by ships (T23's & T45's) -they all belong to both a 'flight' and a NAS .... so as you say Jim this FAA aircraft topic has the potential to grow like topsy!! Oh and I nearly forgot ... what of Bulwark (L15) and Albion (L15) they can have multiple NAS and 'flights' during operations/exercises/cruises ... then there are the RFA's!!!
Little h
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Pelican
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by Pelican »

Re posts about FAA operational and training aircraft.

Seems to me that there are 3 basic choices:
Post by Squadron-NAS to which they belong.
Post by ship name that they are operating from.
Post by operation that they are taking part in, e.g. Westlant19, CSG21.
I've no preference as long as we are all posting according to the same logical, simple instructions.
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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Little h
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by Little h »

Pelican wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:46 pm Re posts about FAA operational and training aircraft.

Seems to me that there are 3 basic choices:
Post by Squadron-NAS to which they belong.
Post by ship name that they are operating from.
Post by operation that they are taking part in, e.g. Westlant19, CSG21.
I've no preference as long as we are all posting according to the same logical, simple instructions.
Another observation is that the royalnavy.mod.uk site carries details of the NAS and their respective aircraft, but fails abysmally to compile/present info on each NAS in a uniform manner - e.g. not all the NAS pages carry info on 'flights' in the NAS - are there even 'flights' in all the NAS's, if so, how many aircraft comprise a 'flight' ? - utterly pathetic!!
Little h
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jbryce1437
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by jbryce1437 »

If there are no strong objections, I will merge the 10 threads recently created on the various Naval Air Squadrons into the RN Fleet Air Arm - General thread, which was originally created to cater for those types of post. That would leave us with 3 RN Fleet Air Arm threads, the two relating to HMS Queen Elizabeth and the QE Class, together with the General thread. Bearing in mind that all of the other Navies only have the one thread.

Jim
HMS Raleigh 1963 , HMS Collingwood 1963 & 67 , HMS Ark Royal 1964-7, HMS Undaunted 1968-71, HMS Victory (Fleet Maintenance Group) 1971-72, HMS Exmouth 1972-74
JEM, EM, OEM, LOEM, POOEL
Then 28 years in the Fire Brigade
Retired since 2002
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Little h
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class - Airwings/Airgroups Except F35B

Unread post by Little h »

No objections from me Jim.

Well done for taking that course of action.
Little h
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