F35B Airwing

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ivorthediver
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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing

Unread post by ivorthediver »

Well I'm all for " in house purchase" just so long as we don't end up shooting ourselves in the foot David.

First I have heard of this " Tempest " but my biggest fear is keeping the aircraft in tact long enough to see it instead of the age old interference by the MOD in causing delays and costs to soar/ programs delayed. that never reach our notice until the poo hits the fan..... and all these gizmos take time and shed loads of money to bring to fruition and realise their intended potential .

Welcome it with open arms for any aero industry we still have left ,... but with great trepidation and the risk of history repeating itself yet again , as we never seem to learn from our mistakes do we ......... ;)
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Pelican
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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing

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ivorthediver wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:27 pm Well I'm all for " in house purchase" just so long as we don't end up shooting ourselves in the foot David.

First I have heard of this " Tempest " but my biggest fear is keeping the aircraft in tact long enough to see it instead of the age old interference by the MOD in causing delays and costs to soar/ programs delayed. that never reach our notice until the poo hits the fan..... and all these gizmos take time and shed loads of money to bring to fruition and realise their intended potential .

Welcome it with open arms for any aero industry we still have left ,... but with great trepidation and the risk of history repeating itself yet again , as we never seem to learn from our mistakes do we ......... ;)
Ivor a cynic might say basically that it is case of the RAF getting 'one over' on the RN/FAA if they succeed - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Tempest - Tempest is a land based A/C so I have not posted about it. Of course it cannot be operated from carriers.
The QEC were designed for the F35B so without them they would become chopper and drone carriers apart from embarking the USMC F35Bs and perhaps Italian ones.
I would suggest that we need at least 48 F35Bs in order to operate QE and PoW operationally plus more for spares and training A/C.
The cost of each F35B is falling for each UK a/c because we are a class one partner in the project and our gains from the production of parts in Lancashire should not be overlooked - all covered in previous posts.

P.S. - A comment from elsewhere which is well informed:

The long awaited UK ISDR is to be published on 16 Mar 21 having been delayed both by earlier Brexit and Covid concerns – not least the need to be clear what the planned defence budget would be for the next 10 years. Without a clear understanding of the budget available there can be no rational replanning of what UK defence needs over the 10 years and beyond that such strategic reviews require to be anything near realistic and achievable.
The budget issue was resolved positively in late 2020 when HMG announced a significant increase in the UK Defence budget over and above the already planned year on year 0.5% defence acquisition budget increases from 2018. This was significant as the 15% (average) per annum increase announced in such funding marked the first increase for nearly 30 years since the successive post-Cold War instigated declines and further large reduction in the SDSR10 catalysed by the 2008 World Financial crisis. UK Defence is therefore to benefit from a significant rising level of expenditure despite the financial difficulties created by the COVID pandemic and the continuing needs for UK government spending on other key matters. As a result, the UK over the next few years is forecast to return to being the world’s 3rd highest defence spender behind the USA and China (who are both a quantum level above the UK and all other countries) and by 2025 will be spending 2.5% or more or its GDP on defence – well above the minimum 2% GDP required under NATO policy too.
Such planning certainty coupled with the increase has allowed the 2021 UK ISDR to focus on some fundamental changes to how British security and defence is provided. It is forecast to be very radical and we have seen some key aspects of it emerge officially in recent months but we shall have to await the full publication on March 16th before we can take a coherent view of what is being planned.
What is already clear from several official statements in recent months is that all 3 services will lose some present capabilities as there utility is fading or indeed as a matter of priority to help fund the fundamental restructuring and future technology procurements to ensure the capabilities needed for the next 30 years.
Its important to grasp therefore the following key issues about what has driven the ISDR outcome:
1 The view of the UK’s place in the World order and its roles within that and the execution of its responsibilities resulting from that key assessment flows into every aspect of the 2021 ISDR. Clearly the post Brexit situation, and emerging threats from potential adversaries are all part of that assessment. But let’s be clear – The UK is not a superpower so our contributions are most often going to be executable within allied contexts be it NATO or others already emerging especially in the Pacific region. Realism is critical here not dreaming about the UK’s past.
2 As ever there is not going to be enough budget despite the planned increase to achieve everything that is desirable and the priority will therefore be on trying to deliver the essentials not the nice to haves (or keep). Doing what we are really good at to best effect and having capabilities that align with our key allies as well as leveraging political and operational influence with them are key issues too.
3 If you continue to think total numbers of stuff is all that really matters in effective security and defence you are missing the point big time. Capability measures and resulting Combat Effects set against analysis of the range of threats and scenarios and the UK’s role and needs within all those are what matters not counting numbers – technology has driven this. While numbers do matter that is within the right context of required policy approved capability and sustainability not chest thumping league table comparisons or referencing now out of date plans or harking back by comparing force levels (of a very different nature) in the past.. It is known that the HMG is determined to best focus future plans on home grown UK industry where possible too – and to the detriment to some hitherto key overseas industrial relationships. Defence policy is never easy given its industrial and economic impact when spending such large sums over such long periods.
4 There will be some significant reductions in some planned key asset and platform purchase plans driven by fundamentally changing needs or the declining relevance of some capabilities and the need to spend much more on restructuring for the new operational priorities. Change itself costs a lot of money especially if it is radical involving significant infrastructure, new logistics and training demands. Removing some desirable but not essential capabilities early to help the transition is likely to be part of the ISDR plans as money needs focusing on the new not the old. If you look at all these as just more cuts again you really are missing the point.
5 The key theme of the ISDR21 will be some radical emphasis on the new security and defence domains focused around cyber defence, autonomous and robotic assets and space. These domains already have massive significance for our security and national safety and survival and are becoming even more significant almost daily. Relying purely on large armed services with expensively trained personnel is rapidly fading as the whole nature of future conflict shifts from inhabited and operated mechanised warfare of any kind. Many do not realise the forward thinking that was put into the QE class for the coming UAV revolution and we will see much more of this soon.
6 Network enabled capability (which radically improves combat effect at all levels) will have come of age as the integration of information and control through networked capabilities with all our key assets ensuring their rapid application and accurate targeting using precision weapons is enshrined in our plans for action at every level of conflict. Remember too that the QE class are the largest integrated military IT platforms ever to put to sea so we have a head start here.
7 The UK armed services will continue to develop their Joint service approach to warfare – of which we already world leaders. Understanding how far we have already come in such integration and how it is now manifest through Strategic Command at policy, funding and command structure level is important. Looking at each of the 3 UK services in isolation is a nonsense game these days and is best left for the history books.
8 There will be levels of planning and expenditure risk explicit within the ISDR21 driven by financial limits and the abiding reality that no forward threat assessments can be 100% accurate. Delivery sufficient flexible and adaptable capabilities with what we do plan to have will be key to underpinning that we can still respond to the unexpected if needed. It’s a key attribute the UK has been good at since WW2 despite an inevitable decline in the size of our defence commitments in that period.
So while some of what we will read and see on March 16th will seem on the face of it undesirable, its critical that broader understandings and assessments are made of the whole package. The UK’s Carrier Enabled Power Projection (UK CEPP) plans will be influenced and affected by some of the decisions for sure, but be in no doubt much will be positive if you take the time to see the whole picture and understand what will be happening in detail.
We will try as best we can to explain the impact of any such decisions and plans once they are in the public domain. We can be confident given the present government’s more recent statements about the ISDR and parliamentary answers that the starting point will be the retention of both QE class carriers as fundamental to our future power projection capabilities along with further investment in the broader assets associated with them too. Knee jerking emotional responses at any one particular announcement will not be good for your blood pressure!
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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ivorthediver
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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing

Unread post by ivorthediver »

Thank you David , when I read the post about 48 F35b I was relieved as that as I recall was the minimum FAA need and I agree that the Raf might feel that they have scored points , but we now HAVE the QE's albeit without its full compliment which is why I did not react to the comment adversely , and if the RAF get their new toy thats more for us and offers more chance to illustrate how ill based their intentions were .

On the one hand we will appear to being snubbing their co- operation with us.... but on the other.. offers us a second choice to Arm ourselves with
but the bells keep ringing in my head of yet another TSR 2 sell out where all this will be handed over to the best bidder [ note... I don't say BEST offer] ...........but time will tell and I am curious over our governments rekindled interest in magnetic catapults ??????????????
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Pelican
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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing

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I can only speculate on your final comment Ivor re Cats and Traps.
You may recall that the then Capt. Kyd of of Q.E. referenced that she would carry drones in the future.
Whilst I doubt the carrier will ever be retro fitted with full size Cs & Ts it is possible that a mini version could be installed for drones?
However, VTOL military drones may be developed in the future - they already exist in civil form - and would make good wingmen for the F35Bs?
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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ivorthediver
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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing

Unread post by ivorthediver »

A valid point David , and one I would like to see more of in my opinion , but the separation of service equipment would heighten the different skill sets needed in each of our armed service .......but it will never happen for the same reasons as history has shown ......none the less the FAA has always shone as the more adept .........in my book .
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Pelican
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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing

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Top British F-35 Pilot On How His Fledgling Team Is Forging Its Own Path Forward

As British armed forces await the official outcome of the forthcoming government defense are jointly gearing up for a massive global deployment that will be spearheaded by the fledgling UK Lightning Force. Group Captain Jim Beck is the current Station Commander of RAF Marham, the home base of the British Lightning Force. He is a pilot who has flown the F-35 during some of its most exacting operational evaluations. Few people are better positioned to understand and explain the intricacies and challenges of growing a cadre of operators and aircraft to form a brand new stealth fighter force. Ahead of the high-profile deployment, Beck sat down with The War Zone to explain some of the critical issues in re-establishing Britain's carrier strike force.

The UK's F-35 Lightning Force will undertake its first sustained operational tasking this spring as it deploys aboard HMS Queen Elizabeth as part of Carrier Strike Group (CSG) for CSG21, a combined operation with the U.S. Marine Corps. A large UK/U.S. complement of F-35Bs will embark the Royal Navy’s new flagship aircraft carrier for an operational deployment that is likely to include periods in the Mediterranean and the Indo-Pacific region.

Continues at:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... 6QJ8WFclco
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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Pelican
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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing

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UK looking at ’60 and then maybe up to 80′ F-35B jets
March 23, 202125
The First Sea Lord has said during a webcast that the UK intends to purchase ‘around 60’ F-35B jets and then ‘maybe more up to around 80’ for four deployable squadrons.


The total of 80 is welcome news given the speculation the buy could be capped at 48.

A defence insider informed the UK Defence Journal of a live webcast given today by the First Sea Lord.

“The First Sea Lord has just said 60 F-35, then maybe more up to around 80 for 4 deployable squadrons.”

According to the recently released Defence Command Paper released today titled ‘Defence in a Competitive Age’, the UK intends to increase the fleet size beyond the 48 F-35 aircraft it has already ordered.

Continues at:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-look ... O_fI6htFBI
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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Pelican
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Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth R08 Airwing

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DMRTs

The UK purchased four full-motion simulators and four cockpits that are included in two Deployable Mission Rehearsal Trainers (DMRTs). Each DMRT is housed inside an ISO container, with two cockpits per container. The DMRTs feature the same cockpit layout and Flight Management System software as the full-motion simulator, but with slightly reduced visual acuity.

The above is an extract from:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... th-forward
Scroll down to heading "Pilot training"

One of these modules has now been installed aboard Q.E. for use in the forthcoming exercise Strike Warrior and CSG21. See:
https://twitter.com/BAESystemsAir/statu ... xE0028TxRY
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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Pelican
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Re: F35B Airwing

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Valkyrie: This Might Be the F-22 and F-35s New Best Fighting Friend

Launching drones from the cockpit of a manned fifth-generation stealth jet, and conducting mini-drone attacks from Valkyrie drones themselves, introduces a new sphere of tactical possibilities.

Continues at:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... end-184071
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HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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Pelican
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Re: F35B Airwing

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US commanders say 5th-gen fighters will be 'critical' in a war. Here's how F-35s and F-22s stack up to Russia's and China's best jets.

See:
https://www.businessinsider.com/f22-f35 ... &r=US&IR=T
HMS Pelican 1938 - 1958 GGCV L86 U86 F86 What I Have I Hold ~ A wonderful bird is the Pelican its beak can hold more than its belly can.
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